Curse

Kai Nui · Feb 12, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

Get off your high horse. Just because something is good compared to crap(most MMORPGs you cannot teleport and waste tons of time walking to places) doesnt mean it is the best it can be. GW as a game is designed to be the ANTI MMORPG so any chance there is to make things easier for players to get going faster should be implemented. You cannot give a good reason against this idea except for nonsense arguments from people who beleive in some "pure" form of this game that should never be changed.

PVP areas should be free change to any profession you have unlocked, end of story.

it just makes sense, and no argument against it i have read makes any sense at all. Rerolling is LAAAAME when you just want to change your secondary.

honestly if you are reading this thread and do not play PvP and Pve equally you do not have the perspective to really understand where the original poster is comming from

Thank you very much. I really truely, honestly believe that you captured the essence of my original post. As cheesy as that sounds, I really think it's true. It's like you can read my mind and explain things in an unimaginably clearer version than I could.

>_< Yeah, see what I mean? Hahaha... Thanks.

EDIT: Also, same goes for Phades. I was busy typing mine when you submitted yours. Thanks for the support, and maybe we'll be able to get this game changed for the better. I can't wait for the day when we can swap our secondary on PVP characters without completely destroying and starting back up just to swap out something like a few skills.

Loviatar · Feb 12, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

i think Anet has the idea that PVE has its own PVE method of switching secondaries and if you are using a PVE character you will have to go through the PVE process to do it.

i have asbestos pants on so go ahead.........

Phades · Feb 12, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

EDIT: Also, same goes for Phades. I was busy typing mine when you submitted yours. Thanks for the support, and maybe we'll be able to get this game changed for the better. I can't wait for the day when we can swap our secondary on PVP characters without completely destroying and starting back up just to swap out something like a few skills.

I really dont think that there will be no where in ch2 that has the option to change secondaries. Otherwise, it would be overly easy for ch1 characters to get alternate professions, but a bit long for ch2 characters to do the same. Also, since ch2 is standalone, it would technically be impossible if the ghosts were only in that ch1 content. If whoever is doing the secondary profession changes is a ghost, i honestly dont care, but the only goal here is to see that there is someone at least in the temple of balthazar that can perform that function.

Loviatar · Feb 12, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

I really dont think that there will be no where in ch2 that has the option to change secondaries. .

cheer up.

there was mention that chapter 1 owners would be able to make a X/ASS OR X/RIT in chapter 2 by a secondary switch

details to come later

Warskull · Feb 13, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i think Anet has the idea that PVE has its own PVE method of switching secondaries and if you are using a PVE character you will have to go through the PVE process to do it.

i have asbestos pants on so go ahead.........

Completeting the quests is the process though. Considering that have you have to go to four different maps just to swap secondary if you pvping it is a bit ridiculous. You can access you storage from any outpost, you can change your attributes and skills from any outpost, why not just let players change their secondary from any outpost. Wouldn't it suck if you had to map back to ascalon to put items in storage and then map to amnoon to change skills, and then finally map back to the Temple of the Ages to start your next run?

The worst thing that could happen is people changing secondaries right before someone enters a mission. Safeguards could be put in against that if needed.

Phades · Feb 13, 2006, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

The worst thing that could happen is people changing secondaries right before someone enters a mission. Safeguards could be put in against that if needed.

The game already freezes the attribute point distribution when entering a mission area, so i doubt it would allow the secondary to be switched and consequently dropping the points or changing the skill lineup. In all likelyhood, just placing a npc in the temple of balthazar to change secondaries would be good enough.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Feb 13, 2006, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

Making things convenient for everyone is not ridiculous.

Just give the Balthazar Priest the ability to change our secondaries.
Those in favour of this suggestion, please /sign

/sign to give the Balthazar Priest in every PvP outpost the ability to change our secondary profession

Come, lets show our support for this idea.

No one favour this suggestion?

This would be an option for:

PvE characters who are currently in the PvP Battle Isles to change their secondary professions, without having to visit the crystal deserts.

PvP characters would be able to change their secondary professions without rerolling their characters.

Otherwise, support Kai Nui 's idea of able to switch secondary profession at the character sheet.

Undivine · Feb 14, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Let me see if I can understand Actionjack here. I think he has the same feelings as I do. RPG stands for Role Playing Game, and anything that detracts from the role playing aspect of a game is to the game's detriment, at least as far as being an RPG. Guild Wars gives your character far more flexibility than just about any other RPG out there. You are not really playing the role of one character, you're playing a build. All that's left is for them to make it possible to change your primary and you can do anything. This kind of freedom makes role players a bit uncomfortable. I am a role player myself.

Actionjack, if I'm understanding him correctly, isn't so much opposed to the ease of switching secondaries. He's opposed to the idea of switching secondaries at all. Characters should be more static. A wizard can't just pick up a sword and suddenly be expert at it no more than a barbarian can decide he can cast powerful spells.

But I have come to accept that Guild Wars is no kind of role playing game at all. The PvE story is weak and the opportunity to play the role of a different person is nonexistent. This game is not about role playing. The fantasy setting is just an excuse for hack n slash play. I won't say mindless hack n slash play because GW does a good job at making the strategy thoughtful. But your character has no personality and the game has little realism anyway.

Since the game is what it is, there's little reason to make people do these trivial things to switch their secondaries when they are already capable of doing it.

/signed.

actionjack · Feb 14, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Let me see if I can understand Actionjack here. I think he has the same feelings as I do. RPG stands for Role Playing Game, and anything that detracts from the role playing aspect of a game is to the game's detriment, at least as far as being an RPG. Guild Wars gives your character far more flexibility than just about any other RPG out there. You are not really playing the role of one character, you're playing a build. All that's left is for them to make it possible to change your primary and you can do anything. This kind of freedom makes role players a bit uncomfortable. I am a role player myself.

Actionjack, if I'm understanding him correctly, isn't so much opposed to the ease of switching secondaries. He's opposed to the idea of switching secondaries at all. Characters should be more static. A wizard can't just pick up a sword and suddenly be expert at it no more than a barbarian can decide he can cast powerful spells.

But I have come to accept that Guild Wars is no kind of role playing game at all. The PvE story is weak and the opportunity to play the role of a different person is nonexistent. This game is not about role playing. The fantasy setting is just an excuse for hack n slash play. I won't say mindless hack n slash play because GW does a good job at making the strategy thoughtful. But your character has no personality and the game has little realism anyway.

Since the game is what it is, there's little reason to make people do these trivial things to switch their secondaries when they are already capable of doing it.

/signed.

No one understand me like you do! Just kidding.. While I am not in much favort of the changing 2ndary, I think that is done is done, and don't see much the need to change on that. (speaking of which.. why did Undivine brought me out again? that post was pages ago)

However, I still would voice my concern in regarding to the "instant" change of 2ndary. I would support that with my recent expereicne in PvP, in which I was trying to just try out a build and want a quick game in PUG (as well as see the new PvP arena), however, the process of finding a team was teadious with interview of what rank and what skill you have. I know a great team build is important, but it also put a big stump in chance of playing a quick game. Now, adding the easy of changing 2nardy to that, and you would get even longer "preparing timie", which would be a turn off for some.

brosse · Feb 14, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Actionjack, I'm gonna assume you don't play much pvp (Heroes Ascent).
But really, as someone who plays there all the time, I can guarantee you that switching secondaries on the fly will only make group forming a lot faster and smoother.
Rerolling or having to go through 4 load screens to do something you can do anyway doesn't add anything at all to the fun, the challenge or the 'Roleplaying spirit' of the game. (not that I even consider this a roleplaying game)

/signed

PS there is no such thing as a quick game with a PUG in HA, if you want to get past the first map anyway.

trebes · Feb 14, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

/signed

Grimm · Feb 15, 2006, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Let me see if I can understand Actionjack here. I think he has the same feelings as I do. RPG stands for Role Playing Game, and anything that detracts from the role playing aspect of a game is to the game's detriment, at least as far as being an RPG. Guild Wars gives your character far more flexibility than just about any other RPG out there. You are not really playing the role of one character, you're playing a build. All that's left is for them to make it possible to change your primary and you can do anything. This kind of freedom makes role players a bit uncomfortable. I am a role player myself.

Actionjack, if I'm understanding him correctly, isn't so much opposed to the ease of switching secondaries. He's opposed to the idea of switching secondaries at all. Characters should be more static. A wizard can't just pick up a sword and suddenly be expert at it no more than a barbarian can decide he can cast powerful spells.

But I have come to accept that Guild Wars is no kind of role playing game at all. The PvE story is weak and the opportunity to play the role of a different person is nonexistent. This game is not about role playing. The fantasy setting is just an excuse for hack n slash play. I won't say mindless hack n slash play because GW does a good job at making the strategy thoughtful. But your character has no personality and the game has little realism anyway.

Since the game is what it is, there's little reason to make people do these trivial things to switch their secondaries when they are already capable of doing it.

/signed.

GW is only an RPG in the most superficial way. It is designed around PvP primarily. It is not realistic. Thus switching secondaries is a good thing. Changing your attributes isn't realistic either, but it's also a good thing.

GW was not designed as a game for role-playing. It was designed to eliminate the unfun parts of online "rpgs" and provide, fun, quick tactical and strategic play. It's more akin to a 3-D real-time version of Magic: the Gathering than an RPG in the traditional sense.

To be honest, most "rpgs" are not real role-playing games either. Games like Final Fantasy, for instance, are slightly interactive movies with detailed character stats and combat. You can't play a role, as the personalities and dialog of all characters is already scripted for you. You can't make decisions about what a character would do, given your idea of his or her personality, past experiences, etc. People say, "oh, but you're playing a role, man, so it's *totally* a role-playing game!" You play a role in Super Mario Brothers, Doom, etc, also. You play the role of Mario or the Doom Guy (that is his only name; the books and movie be damned). But they're not role-playing games.

Undivine · Feb 15, 2006, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimm

GW is only an RPG in the most superficial way. It is designed around PvP primarily. It is not realistic. Thus switching secondaries is a good thing. Changing your attributes isn't realistic either, but it's also a good thing.

GW was not designed as a game for role-playing. It was designed to eliminate the unfun parts of online "rpgs" and provide, fun, quick tactical and strategic play. It's more akin to a 3-D real-time version of Magic: the Gathering than an RPG in the traditional sense.

You are preaching to the choir. In fact, you pretty much restated what I stated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

(speaking of which.. why did Undivine brought me out again? that post was pages ago)

Only because I'm new to this thread and mostly saw the earlier posts. I'm sorry for picking you out in particular.

I too was a little uncomfortable with being able to change your secondary. Actually I thought it was neat until I found out you can change it back and forth as much as you want. I thought the changing of your secondary in the desert was a one-time only deal.

But meh. As I said before, this just isn't that sort of game. Frankly I'm a little disappointed too.

phreakilla · Feb 15, 2006, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

/signed....on one condition:

You can only change secondaries from the [H]ero dialog, if you have finished the game.

I agree 100% or even as a side note they could just place a npc in the arena you could talk to to change the skill like in the desert once you do the quest you can go to any of the npc

/signed

bebe · Feb 15, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

i like the idea of easy-access secondary change.

however, instead of just having a -quick to change secondary popup on the heroes menu- why don't they just add a lil window on the top left of the map function that has a dropdown of any location (that you unlocked of course) and you can teleport to that location, instead of the whole zoom out/zoom in/click the lil ship to goto L.A. to get to seekers passage, instead just listing every outpost/mission/town listed in the simple dropdown, then mayb after you choose which outpost you wish to visit, the same`ol popup picking a specific district if you please.

/signed none-the-less.

actionjack · Feb 15, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Not much good thread to latch on too... so coming back to this one....

And yes, Grimm.. you are right.. I am not much of PvP player.. I found it still lacking some several aspect.

How about this... Allow only the option of changing 2ndary (via a drop down menu.. or talk to NPC ) in the arena and guild hall... BUT only allow it to your PvP character!

Kai Nui · Feb 18, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Not much good thread to latch on too... so coming back to this one....

And yes, Grimm.. you are right.. I am not much of PvP player.. I found it still lacking some several aspect.

How about this... Allow only the option of changing 2ndary (via a drop down menu.. or talk to NPC ) in the arena and guild hall... BUT only allow it to your PvP character!

Why action jack, why? I didn't waste all that time and effort on a PVE char to unlock skills. I did it so I wouldn't have to log off.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Feb 18, 2006, 07:29 AM // 07:29

In this world, you can't just please everyone.

I suggest this:

Make a new quest, once players done this quest, they are able to change their secondary professions at will, through their character sheet (the "H" key)

In order to be able to do this quest, the character must:
- Ascended
- Completed all the 5 secondary profession quests
- Completed the two +15 attribute points quests

Fair enough?
Those who support this idea, please cast your votes now!

/signed for this fabulous idea of mine

Kai Nui · Feb 24, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

It does seem kind of redundant to earn your secondaries twice, but I see some good logic in it. Maybe be able to do the quest once you've done all the secondaries quests and 15 attribute quests. Then you go to Augury Rock to start the quest in which you fight the doppleganger again, except this time he has his attributes all at the highest possible being around 19? (12+1+3+Skills such as awaken the blood+% chance of raising a level items) In which case you'd have a tough fight on your hands to overcome yourself but with much stronger abilities. Just a thought. Anyway, yeah I'll go ahead and sign for yours, whatever gets me to be able to swap my secondary easily.

Today I was in HA and a MF team wanted me but I wasn't a Me/Mo I was a Me/N and I couldn't be a rezmer, so I told them I'd be right back. I did it, but we did manage to waste a good 10 minutes with everything.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Feb 24, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Yes! Everyone, show your support now!
We want to be able to change secondary professions at will once we earned it!
ANET! HEAR OUR PLEA!